Everyone knows that our physical bodies develop in stages from childhood to adult. But what about spirituality? Does that develop as well? And if we view spiritual development as something that all people go through, might this provide a way to understand the sharp differences between the new atheists (such as Richard Dawkins) and religious believers? Maybe they are on different levels of spiritual development. In her new book, Faith Beyond Belief: Stories of Good People Who Left Their Church Behind, this week’s guest, Margaret Placentra Johnston, tells the stories of common people who made the transition between stages of spirituality (lawless, faithful, rational, and mystic) and why the mystic stage can be viewed as a faith beyond belief. Join Philip Mereton as he talks with Margaret about how these stages help shed light on the ongoing debate over the role of religion in modern society.